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Source — AITW Ep027 — Clare Walsh, DFAT Deputy Secretary on Multilateralism, Aid and Development

Episode Metadata

Field Value
Episode number 27
Title Ep. 27: Clare Walsh, DFAT Deputy Secretary on multilateralism, aid and development
Publication date 2019-08-29
Guests Clare Walsh (Deputy Secretary, Global Cooperation, Development and Partnerships Group, DFAT)
Allan present Yes (as host interviewer)
Format Guest interview; no reading segment

Summary

Interview with Clare Walsh, who oversees DFAT's multilateral engagement, development assistance, human rights, cultural diplomacy, and the New Colombo Plan. Topics: the shaky multilateral order (Walsh's corrective: "the international system has always been shaky in parts"); the distinction between aid and development; Australia's approach to the Human Rights Council; DFAT's distinctive value in whole-of-government settings; and the securitisation of development policy. Allan is primarily in host mode but contributes two sharp formulations: that diplomacy is a skill set, not an interest category; and that Walsh, unlike himself and Darren, "has to actually act to make things happen." No biographical fragments for Allan. No reading segment.

Key Quotations

"Diplomacy is a skill set, not a thing"

"I've often had to point out to some of your colleagues in other agencies that there is actually no international interest called diplomacy — diplomacy is a skill set, it's not a thing. It sits apart from economic or security or environmental or other interests. So what's the point of DFAT?"

— [00:37:21.520 --> 00:38:15.480]

One of Allan's most compressed statements of what DFAT actually does. Diplomacy is not a substantive policy domain competing with trade, security, or environment — it is a method, a craft applied to all of them. The question "so what's the point of DFAT?" is Socratic — he is drawing Walsh to articulate DFAT's distinctive value. Walsh's answer: DFAT sees the whole, holds the bilateral and regional context, and understands the country as a totality rather than through a single departmental prism.

Closing: "you have to actually act"

"You, unlike Darren and me, have to actually act to make things happen rather than from the side. Thanks very much for joining us."

— [00:43:53.210 --> 00:44:19.850]

A characteristic Allan closing: self-deprecating about his own commentator role, while genuinely crediting the practitioner. The distinction between commentary and action is important to him — he holds himself to a different standard than the people who must make decisions under uncertainty.

Walsh: "the international system has always been shaky in parts"

"I'd start with an observation that the international system has always been shaky in parts. If you talk to any historian of these things, they will point to any point in time where somewhere in the world was going, 'gosh, I wonder what's happening there, because that seems worrying.' So the question is, are we at a point in time where you're looking at quite significant changes, and are they seismic if we don't manage to rein them in?"

— Clare Walsh [00:08:41.120 --> 00:12:26.370]

Walsh's historical corrective sits well alongside Allan's consistent position on institutional fragility — he too resists the narrative that the system was perfect before Trump. Her framework — disruption caused partly by the success of globalisation (more people with aspirations, more states wanting influence) — complements Allan's structural analysis from Ep001 and Ep012.

"The answer is to negotiate, not withdraw"

"That's right, the answer is to get down and negotiate new rules."

— [00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:53.760]

Allan's interjection on the Universal Postal Union — brief and direct. Walsh has explained how the rules have lagged behind changed economic realities; Allan cuts to the prescription. His instinct throughout the corpus: institutional engagement, not exit.

Biographical Fragments

Evidence type: None new for Allan.

Style and Method Evidence

  • "Diplomacy is a skill set": Among the most exact of Allan's institutional definitions in the corpus. He has defended DFAT's value repeatedly across the series (Ep002 on "instruments of persuasion," Ep012 on "skillful diplomacy in all its forms") — this is the sharpest version yet.
  • Host drawing out the guest: Allan's question "what's the point of DFAT?" is deliberately blunt, designed to force Walsh past the job description and into first principles. She delivers.
  • Self-deprecating closing: "you have to actually act" — the practitioner/commentator distinction. Allan regularly marks this line; here it is explicit.

Open Questions

  1. Allan mentions Howard Bamsey — "my old friend Howard Bamsey" (via Walsh's attribution: Walsh says Bamsey "said hey I think you should go to New York"). Allan knows Bamsey well enough to call him an old friend. Bamsey was a senior Australian climate and energy official. This suggests Allan's networks extend deeply into the climate policy world — consistent with his PM&C and Lowy Institute background.