Source — AITW Ep056 — Aussie Journalists Depart China; Foreign Relations Bill; Abe's Legacy; Tony Abbott¶

Episode Metadata¶

Field	Value
Episode number	56
Title	Aussie journalists depart China (and other bilateral tensions); Foreign Relations Bill; Abe's legacy; Tony Abbott
Publication date	2020-09-10
Recording date	Wednesday, 9 September 2020
Guests	None — Allan and Darren only
Allan present	Yes
Format	Regular discussion — five topics

Summary¶

Five topics: (1) Emergency departure of Bill Birtles (ABC) and Mike Smith (AFR) from China following the Cheng Lei detention; (2) Deputy Chinese Head of Mission Wang Xining's National Press Club speech (26 August); (3) the proposed Foreign Relations Bill; (4) Abe Shinzo's retirement and legacy; (5) Tony Abbott's appointment as unpaid UK Trade Advisor. Three biographical standouts: Allan's confirmed non-use of social media; a detailed account of his China media diet; and a major career fragment — when he first joined the Department of External Affairs in 1969, it had no responsibility for relations with the UK, because Australia House was managed by PM&C on the grounds that "Britain wasn't foreign." Reading segment: Adam Tooze (Sinica podcast; Tyler Cowan conversation).

Key Quotations¶

"I am frankly gobsmacked"¶

"I am frankly gobsmacked that this debate around this extraordinary decision by a former Australian Prime Minister to work for a foreign government on issues where our two countries' interests may well diverge has been framed as a sort of celebrity spat about whether Tony Abbott is a homophobe and misogynist. Far more important to me is the unedifying thought that any person who has held the highest political office in this country would want to go and work for another government."

— [00:45:07.070 --> 00:46:32.470]

"Frankly gobsmacked" is among the strongest emotional expressions in the corpus — Allan deploys it here for a domestic political issue, not a geopolitical one. His objection is not about Abbott's views on women or climate, which he implicitly acknowledges, but about the constitutional and psychological question: what does it say about someone who has been Prime Minister that they would work for another government? The critique goes to national identity and political loyalty, not personal character. The register is genuinely exasperated.

"When I first began working in what was then the Department of External Affairs, it had no responsibility for relations with the UK"¶

"I have been around for a long time, so long, in fact, that when I first began working in what was then the Department of External Affairs, it had no responsibility for relations with the UK. Australia House was managed by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet on the grounds that Britain wasn't foreign. And here we are, 50 years later, with a former Prime Minister who apparently believes the same thing. It's bizarre. Casey wouldn't have done it. Even Robert Menzies at least pretended that he was trying to mediate between London and Cairo when he got involved in the Suez crisis."

— [00:45:07.070 --> 00:46:32.470]

A major biographical and institutional data point: when Allan joined the Department of External Affairs in 1969, Britain was so central to Australian political identity that it was not treated as "foreign" — Australia House in London was managed by PM&C rather than External Affairs. This is specific institutional history confirmed by personal experience. He uses it to place the Abbott appointment in a 50-year trajectory: Australia spent the intervening decades becoming genuinely independent; a former PM working for the UK government unwinds that symbolic independence. The references to Casey (Minister for External Affairs 1951–60) and Menzies are from personal command of department history, not research.

"We're missing all those opportunities" (on COVID and personal diplomacy)¶

"It's so much easier to engineer a catch up in the margins of an international conference than it is to go through the formality of putting in place a telephone or a Zoom call. Any diplomat who's been around for a while will be able to give you examples of the way meetings between political leaders can facilitate changes and spark new insights. And I thought I was thinking about this because a good example at a time similar to this when we had a very parlous relationship with China... was the meeting between John Howard and Jiang Zemin at the November 1996 APEC summit meeting in Manila. Howard wrote about it later in his memoirs and described it as about as important a meeting as I held with any foreign leader in the time I was Prime Minister. And during that meeting, Jiang said to Howard in English, 'face to face is much better, isn't it?'"

— [00:24:11.570 --> 00:26:00.070]

Allan marshals the Howard-Jiang 1996 Manila meeting as evidence of what COVID's elimination of in-person diplomacy is costing. He cites Howard's memoirs directly — suggesting he has read them carefully. Jiang Zemin's remark in English ("face to face is much better, isn't it?") is a detail that Allan finds both precise and resonant: it illustrates that even the Chinese leadership understood the value of direct personal contact. Allan is making a structural argument about diplomatic communication using a historical case he holds in memory.

Allan's China information diet¶

"I can't even pretend to take it all in on China itself. I read the reliable media, Financial Times, New York Times, The Economist. If there's a big issue going on, I'll sometimes turn to the South China Morning Post. I try to keep across specialty China-focused news sites like Trivium, SubChina and Cynicism [Sinocism], Bill Bishop's site, and to check in on podcasts like Sinica, which is excellent, and China Power from CSIS. On the Australian side of things... I read the Chinese NACAN blog, I listen to the Little Red Podcast, and of course follow works from academics and think tanks like Lowy, China Matters, and ACRI."

— [00:27:25.070 --> 00:28:48.070]

A detailed and rare disclosure of Allan's actual information diet. Three tiers: (1) mainstream quality press (FT, NYT, Economist) plus SCMP for big issues; (2) specialist China sites (Trivium, SubChina, Sinocism/Bill Bishop) and podcasts (Sinica, China Power/CSIS); (3) Australian ecosystem (NACAN blog, Little Red Podcast, Lowy, China Matters, ACRI). DFAT, he notes, additionally has "Australian diplomatic reporting analysis from ONI and intelligence, all filtered through a cadre of real China experts." He is candid: "I can't even pretend to take it all in." His non-use of social media (confirmed by Darren in the same exchange) means this list is his complete pipeline.

Biographical Fragments¶

Evidence type: New — Department of External Affairs 1969 institutional detail; confirmed non-use of social media; China information diet

"When I first began working in what was then the Department of External Affairs, it had no responsibility for relations with the UK": Specific institutional history from 1969. Australia House in London was managed by PM&C, not External Affairs, because "Britain wasn't foreign." This is Allan's lived experience of the transition: he entered a department that had not yet fully asserted Australian independence from Britain in its institutional structure. He uses the 50-year arc (1969–2020) to contextualise the Abbott appointment as a symbolic regression. Richard Casey (Minister for External Affairs 1951–60) is cited as a comparison point, confirming Allan's command of departmental history from before his own time. (Ep056)
Confirmed non-use of social media: Darren: "Allan, you've long said that you don't engage on social media and that's totally fair enough." This is a direct and public confirmation. Allan has referenced this implicitly before; here it is explicitly stated by Darren in a way Allan does not contradict. His information diet (see above) relies entirely on curated publication-reading and podcasts — no Twitter, no Facebook. (Ep056)
China information diet — specific sources: FT, NYT, The Economist (baseline); SCMP (for big issues); Trivium, SubChina, Sinocism/Bill Bishop (specialist); Sinica podcast, China Power/CSIS (podcasts); NACAN blog, Little Red Podcast, Lowy, China Matters, ACRI (Australian ecosystem). He reads Howard's memoirs closely enough to cite a specific passage. (Ep056)

Style and Method Evidence¶

"Gobsmacked" as genuine register: Allan almost never uses colloquial or emotional language this strongly. "Frankly gobsmacked" on the Abbott appointment signals real exasperation at a category error — a former PM treating Australia-UK relations as pre-1969 terms. The register contrasts with his normal analytical composure and makes the point more effectively.
Institutional history as personal archive: The Department of External Affairs 1969 detail is not researched — it is remembered. He was there. The comparison to Casey is from his command of the department's history across the decades before he joined. Allan carries the institutional history of Australian foreign policy inside him.
"Face to face is much better, isn't it?": He cites a single line from a 1996 meeting (from Howard's memoirs) as the crystallisation of the COVID argument about personal diplomacy. Characteristic: one precise detail doing the work of a longer argument.
"We need historians more than ever": His framing for the Adam Tooze recommendation. Not just a book or podcast plug but a prescriptive statement about intellectual needs in a crisis.

Reading / Listening Segment¶

Allan: Adam Tooze (economic historian, formerly Cambridge, now Columbia) — two discussions: 1. A discussion on the Sinica podcast about China and the geopolitics of the pandemic. 2. A discussion with Tyler Cowen about "what economic history can tell us about navigating the current crisis."

Framing: "We need historians more than ever."

The Tooze recommendation is consistent with Allan's broader intellectual preferences: economic historians who think about crisis, power, and international order at a systemic level. He previously recommended Krastev/Holmes for changing his understanding of populism; here he reaches for someone who can make sense of the pandemic through long historical time.

Darren: The Nuzzle app — for filtering Twitter/social media without engaging directly. Not relevant to Allan (confirmed non-social media user).

Open Questions¶

Allan cites Howard's memoirs on the 1996 Manila Jiang meeting — does he cite Howard's memoirs elsewhere in the corpus? Has he written a review or commentary on them?
Casey "wouldn't have done it" (work for a foreign government) — is there a specific incident or statement from Casey that Allan has in mind, or is this a general character assessment?
The transition period at the Department of External Affairs — when exactly did the UK relationship move from PM&C to External Affairs? This is publicly verifiable institutional history but worth confirming.
Bill Bishop's Sinocism — does Allan mention this subscription newsletter again? It is a paid-subscription product; his inclusion of it in the list suggests he subscribes.