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Source — AITW Ep108 — PM in PNG; Duelling Ambassadors; Reviewing 2022

Episode Metadata

Field Value
Episode number 108
Title Ep. 108: PM in PNG; duelling ambassadors; reviewing 2022
Publication date 2023-01-20
Recording date Thursday, 19 January 2023
Guests None (Allan and Darren only)
Allan present Yes
Format New Year episode: PM Albanese's PNG visit; Yamagami-Xiao ambassador spat; 2022 review and 2023 outlook. Reading segment at close.

Summary

The episode opens with Allan's holiday disclosure: ten days on the south coast of NSW at an NRMA resort near Murramurang National Park "with eight grandchildren." This is both the first explicit count of grandchildren in the corpus and a characteristic Allan close — "there are sort of senses in which I'm not unhappy to be back in Canberra." The mild understatement after "fulfilling and exhausting" is perfectly placed.

The PNG analysis prompts the most explicit early-career disclosure in the corpus outside the ONA period. Allan announces he "feels particularly ancient and Yoda-like" — and then produces a career arc: a second-year university internship at the Department of Territories proofreading statistical annexes for Australia's UN Trusteeship Council reports on PNG ("deadly tedious, but I learned a lot"), then a posting to PNG as a DFAT graduate recruit, then work in the Trusteeship Section "as Australia began preparing for PNG's independence." This traces his PNG engagement from before independence — a career span of more than fifty years.

The reading segment is one of the most candid intellectual disclosures in the corpus. He recommends Tyson Yunkaporta's Sand Talk and admits his prior thinking on Indigenous knowledge had been "sympathetic, but tempered by a bit of suspicion about mysticism and never particularly orderly." The book, he says, "has really brought about an important change in how I personally think about the subject." For a man whose entire professional identity is built on scepticism toward mysticism and commitment to orderly analysis, this is a significant admission — and a measure of the intellectual honesty that runs throughout the corpus.

Key Quotations

"Particularly ancient and Yoda-like" — the PNG career arc

"There are times on this podcast, Darren, when I feel particularly ancient and Yoda-like. The first job I ever had in Canberra was after a second year university when I had what would now be called an internship, I guess, at the old Department of Territories. And my job was to proofread the statistical annexes to Australia's annual report to the United Nations Trusteeship Council on our management of PNG. Deadly tedious, but I learned a lot. And then I traveled a few years later to PNG as a DFAT graduate recruit and subsequently worked in what was then called the trusteeship section of the department as Australia began preparing for PNG's independence."

— [00:04:25.500 --> 00:09:56.500]

The self-deprecating "Yoda-like" is the frame he uses when his experience genuinely dwarfs what his interlocutor can access — here, a personal relationship with PNG policy stretching back to before independence. The second-year university internship at the Department of Territories is a new piece of career chronology: it predates the DFAT graduate intake and confirms that his first professional contact with Australian foreign policy machinery was during his undergraduate years. "Deadly tedious, but I learned a lot" is characteristic: the honest assessment of what was dull, paired with the genuine claim that it mattered.

"Eight grandchildren" — the holiday disclosure

"We just came back from 10 days down on the south coast of New South Wales, which is one of my favourite places in the world. And we were staying at a NRMA resort in cabins down near Murramurang National Park with eight grandchildren. So it was both fulfilling and exhausting. And there are sort of senses in which I'm not unhappy to be back in Canberra."

— [00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:50.620]

The first explicit count of grandchildren in the corpus: eight. The south coast of NSW named as "one of my favourite places in the world" — a precise geographical affiliation. The closing formulation — "there are sort of senses in which I'm not unhappy to be back in Canberra" — is double-hedged understatement for what is clearly mild relief. The grandchildren are plural and implicitly many; the understatement is in exact proportion to the chaos a holiday with eight of them would entail.

"Tempered by a bit of suspicion about mysticism" — the Sand Talk admission

"I found it really valuable in clarifying my own thinking about this subject, which until now, I guess, had been sympathetic, but tempered by a bit of suspicion about mysticism and never particularly orderly. So it's really brought about an important change in how I personally think about the subject."

— [00:40:46.120 --> 00:42:16.500]

One of the most candid intellectual disclosures in the corpus. He names his prior position precisely — sympathetic but suspicious of mysticism, and intellectually disordered on the topic — and then concedes that a book has changed this. For someone whose professional identity is built on scepticism toward mystical or unverifiable claims and on orderly analysis, both admissions are unusual: that his prior thinking was "never particularly orderly," and that a book by an Aboriginal Australian thinker helped him think more clearly. The recommendation is consequently stronger than most: it is offered as something that changed his own mind.

"I confess I did have to look up" — the Vienna Convention admission

"The question for any diplomat is whether you are crossing the blurry line under Article 41 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which I confess I did have to look up. I did something that I refer to in the normal course of events, but I knew there was something in the Vienna Convention about interfering in internal affairs, and it's Article 41."

— [00:15:53.180 --> 00:17:19.500]

The former DG of ONA and senior intelligence official admits he had to look up Article 41. The phrase "which I confess I did have to look up" is offered without embarrassment — it is simply an accurate report of his research process. The contrast between "something that I refer to in the normal course of events" and needing to check the specific article number is the honest analyst's refusal to pretend expertise where he has only general knowledge.

The 2022 review — key surprises

"I was reminded again, in case I'd forgotten, the lesson of the US invasion of Iraq, which is that all countries are capable of taking actions which seem likely by all sober analysis to end up contrary to their own interests... I was surprised that we saw much more forceful and direct movement than I expected in Washington's adoption of a clear economic and military containment policy, especially the semiconductors decision... the speed of dismantling zero COVID policy after Xi Jinping secured his third term surprised me."

— [00:25:20.500 --> 00:27:20.500]

The structure of the 2022 review is itself revealing: he reports what surprised him, not what confirmed his priors. Three surprises: US containment was more forceful than expected; zero-COVID dismantled faster than expected; and the underlying lesson that "all countries are capable of taking actions contrary to their own interests" — the Iraq parallel explicitly named. This is consistent with his standing epistemic method: hold priors lightly, report what the evidence actually showed.

Biographical Fragments

New

  1. Second-year university internship at Department of Territories — proofreaded statistical annexes to Australia's annual UN Trusteeship Council reports on PNG; "deadly tedious, but I learned a lot." Predates the DFAT graduate intake. (Ep108)

  2. PNG posting as DFAT graduate recruit — "traveled a few years later to PNG as a DFAT graduate recruit"; subsequently worked in the Trusteeship Section "as Australia began preparing for PNG's independence." (Ep108)

  3. Eight grandchildren — first explicit count; holiday at Murramurang National Park with all eight. "Fulfilling and exhausting." (Ep108)

  4. South coast of NSW named as "one of my favourite places in the world" — Murramurang National Park area specifically. (Ep108)

  5. Prior thinking on Indigenous knowledge disclosed — "sympathetic, but tempered by a bit of suspicion about mysticism and never particularly orderly" — changed by reading Tyson Yunkaporta's Sand Talk. (Ep108)

  6. Sky News appearances: once, a long time ago — "It's eight more than me, Darren, but the one was a long time ago." (Ep108)

Reinforcing

  1. "Particularly ancient and Yoda-like" — the mode he uses when his experience genuinely predates his interlocutor's entire professional life. (Ep108)

  2. Iraq-Ukraine pairing — "all countries are capable of taking actions which seem likely by all sober analysis to end up contrary to their own interests." Consistent with the Iraq-Brexit-Ukraine triad (Ep103). (Ep108)

Style and Method Evidence

  • "Fulfilling and exhausting... there are sort of senses in which I'm not unhappy": double-hedged understatement as the vehicle for genuine mild relief.
  • "Yoda-like": self-deprecating frame for when his experience genuinely spans multiple generations of a policy problem.
  • "Deadly tedious, but I learned a lot": honest pairing of candid assessment with genuine claim of value — does not romanticise the dull work.
  • Reports surprises, not confirmations: the 2022 review structured around what changed his mind, not what confirmed it.
  • "I confess I did have to look up": the intellectual honesty of reporting the research process, not performing expertise.

Reading, Listening and Watching

Allan — Tyson Yunkaporta, Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World

"It's a serious topic, but written in a very accessible and often funny way by an Aboriginal Australian who's trying to explain to the rest of us how we should think about Indigenous knowledge... I found it really valuable in clarifying my own thinking about this subject, which until now, I guess, had been sympathetic, but tempered by a bit of suspicion about mysticism and never particularly orderly. So it's really brought about an important change in how I personally think about the subject."

— [00:40:46.120 --> 00:42:16.500]

Recommended by Anthea Roberts (ANU), who was herself Darren's recommendation a year earlier. The chain of recommendation is tracked — he received it from a colleague. The candour about his prior position makes this one of the most revealing reading recommendations in the corpus: a man who defines himself as an orderly analyst suspicious of mysticism admits that an Aboriginal Australian thinker reorganised his thinking on a subject he had previously found unruly. The recommendation is made in the context of the Voice referendum later in 2023 — it is not purely personal but offered as preparation for a public debate.

Open Questions

  1. The Department of Territories internship — Allan says "after a second year university." This places it around 1967–68. Does any other episode confirm the internship year or the university course of study at that point?
  2. The PNG Trusteeship Section posting — does Allan describe this more precisely elsewhere? When did he serve, and what was his specific role as Australia began preparing for PNG's independence (which came in 1975)?
  3. "One of my favourite places in the world" — the south coast of NSW. Does Allan describe other places with the same level of affection? Is this a regular holiday pattern?
  4. The eight grandchildren — can their number be confirmed or updated elsewhere in the corpus? Are any of them named or described?
  5. Sand Talk produced "an important change" in his thinking. Does this change manifest in how he discusses First Nations foreign policy or the Voice referendum in subsequent episodes?